Wasting Mauer and Morneau in their primes

[jewscott]

Of all people on this board jewscott - you preach the "Power Pitchers will Save Us!" doctrine - but our "power" arms have been our worst pitchers this year. Just because Nick Blackburn isn't Mr. Strikeout doesnt mean he isn't very, very valuable to this team right now and going forward. His trade value might be great, but we aren't working from the kind of pitching depth you seem to suggest

save specialist Joe Nathan has been our worst pitcher this year? </incendary comments intended as sarcasm>

Blackburn is a perfectly fine pitcher. But he walks the same thin line that Carlos Silva did. When he's just a little bit off, like he has been the past two games, it winds up being a bit like the old conga line in that Brad Radke Sega Sports commericial. The point is this. A) Blackburn might have more trade value than any pitcher on our staff not named save specialist Joe Nathan right now. B) Blackburn has been luckier than any pitcher in the rotation right now. I believe it was Branch Rickey who said that it's better to trade a player too soon than it is to trade him too late. Blackburn has been a fine pitcher this year. But you can fill some holes by trading him and you don't know what you're going to get going forward. If the right offer is there, you have to consider it.

Re: Playoff Baseball

The 1987 Twins often get hailed as a team that wasn't the best, but won the World Series. But it's also pretty easy to explain why they won it. A) Frank Viola was the best starting pitcher among all the teams in the playoffs. B) They didn't have to start the ghost of Joe Niekro or Steve Carlton C) They really didn't have to run the bullpen much past Keith Atherton. D) It didn't hurt that both Jack Clark and Terry Pendleton were injured and Tom Herr was the Cardinals power threat in the World Series.

The playoffs may be a crap shoot, but there's a certain formula to success. Their odds of winning aren't zero. But they're less than say the Tigers, even though the Tigers may well be a slightly worse team overall. They'd be a lot better if we had a Verlander in the rotation that we could ride.

[username]

Re: Playoff Baseball

The 1987 Twins often get hailed as a team that wasn't the best, but won the World Series. But it's also pretty easy to explain why they won it. A) Frank Viola was the best starting pitcher among all the teams in the playoffs. B) They didn't have to start the ghost of Joe Niekro or Steve Carlton C) They really didn't have to run the bullpen much past Keith Atherton. D) It didn't hurt that both Jack Clark and Terry Pendleton were injured and Tom Herr was the Cardinals power threat in the World Series.

The playoffs may be a crap shoot, but there's a certain formula to success. Their odds of winning aren't zero. But they're less than say the Tigers, even though the Tigers may well be a slightly worse team overall. They'd be a lot better if we had a Verlander in the rotation that we could ride.

a fantastic point that often goes overlooked by the many users who swear by the "catch lightning in a bottle" approach to winning championships.

yes, the best team does not always win. but the inferior teams who eliminate them are often well-built for a best-of-seven system. "lightning in a bottle" fans love to point to the white sox, who had an entire rotation of <4.00 ERA and ~1.20 WHIP starters.

[Pseudofool]

Yeah, we've never had the best pitcher in the playoffs since 1987.

[username]

Yeah, we've never had the best pitcher in the playoffs since 1987.

i think you missed the point of jew's post. he's basically saying that while inferior teams can sometimes manage to win three best of sevens against stronger opponents, it takes a little bit of help. so while having Santana around would eliminate jew's point A, the early 2000s twins really had no answer like the '87 twins had in B, C, D. one player isn't going to close the gap between an 88 win team and a 101 win team. and if he does, you shouldn't count on him to make that difference throughout the remainder of the playoffs.

[Pseudofool]

Yeah, we've never had the best pitcher in the playoffs since 1987.

i think you missed the point of jew's post. he's basically saying that while inferior teams can sometimes manage to win three best of sevens against stronger opponents, it takes a little bit of help. so while having Santana around would eliminate jew's point A, the early 2000s twins really had no answer like the '87 twins had in B, C, D. one player isn't going to close the gap between an 88 win team and a 101 win team. and if he does, you shouldn't count on him to make that difference throughout the remainder of the playoffs.

I think as far as team building goes it makes sense to field a competitive team each in every year (bet on playoff crapshoot), than shoot for a two-year window where we have the supposed best team (bet against playoff crapshoot). I mean it would take some real doing for the Twins ever to field the best team (even in 2006 when we got close, we were beset by LIriano's injury); and if we miss our best-team window, we're totally fucked.

I still owe jwe a response to his long, thoughtful post from a couple days ago (the kevin bacon one) so I don't want to get too worked up here.

[FrodaddyG]

and if we miss our best-team window, we're totally fucked.

And if the unwillingness to try and field a competitive team in the eyes of the players themselves drives away our best guys, that's not going to leave us totally fucked?

[crapforks]

The Twins rotation really hit a sophomore slump this season, and the starters themselves were exposed for their weaknesses. Blackburn has been good, albeit with an assist from lady luck, and is the only pitcher from the initial starting five who performed better than expectations. Swarzack has been surprisingly good as well, although his success might be due to being an empty book thus far. The real problem has been the infield and bullpen, no? There are really no MIs coming up through the system and the team is feeling the negative effects of being starter heavy throughout the minors. I am a broken record when I speak of not wanting the Duensings, Swarzacks, and others in the bullpen when their value lies in their ability to start. The bullpen should be patched up with bullpen arms from the minors or from the demotion of a ML starter.

The most frustrating part of this season for me is the shittyness of the central. Had Cleveland played at all, KC finally taken that step, The Twins could have very well fell hard out of the race. That would have been the best thing for this team. Any player not initialed JM, or JN could have been had for a rebuilding process that might only take a season or two. But since the team is 'competitive', the FO will try and add little pieces here and there. The Twins will probably trade a B level prospect and then some to get OCab. No net loss, no net gain. Mired in mediocrity is what the Twins seem to be.

[Pseudofool]

and if we miss our best-team window, we're totally fucked.

And if the unwillingness to try and field a competitive team in the eyes of the players themselves drives away our best guys, that's not going to leave us totally fucked?

Torii would have resigned. Morneau and Nathan did. So we're talking about Santana. And potentially Mauer. Funny how Morneau and Nathan and Cuddyer all resigned after we had traded a Gold Glove second baseman with a .300 average, Bartlett, Garza and Santana, let Torii go, and acquired no one of consequence. I consider these idle threats esp. when Mauer's comes via Morneau's speculation.

[FrodaddyG]

Torii would have resigned. Morneau and Nathan did. So we're talking about Santana. And potentially Mauer. Funny how Morneau and Nathan and Cuddyer all resigned after we had traded a Gold Glove second baseman with a .300 average, Bartlett, Garza and Santana, let Torii go, and acquired no one of consequence. I consider these idle threats esp. when Mauer's comes via Morneau's speculation.

Mauer, Nathan, and Morneau, according to LEN3, all spoke out about the team's inactivity over the weekend. ("Yeah, there's frustration," Mauer said, "but I've learned over the last few years not to try to get my hopes up that we'll have something, then get disappointed.'')

And Cuddy and Morneau signed BEFORE they traded Johan, and some speculated the signings were part of a last second push to keep Santana in Minnesota. They had also just made the Delmon deal, (the "losing Garza/Bartlett" portion of your argument) which would not have been expected to be the debacle it has been, and was considered "attempting to make the team better and addressing weaknesses by dealing from strengths" when it happened.

Yes, they had lost Torii, but there wasn't a soul who made a peep about the Twins not spending that kind of money to keep Torii. It's called realistic expectations, as opposed to unrealistic ones. Expecting the Twins to pay $90M for Torii is unrealistic. Asking them to trade for average players to bolster both the on-field production of the team and the rapidly withering spirits of the team's core group of players should not be.

[howeda7]

Torii would have resigned. Morneau and Nathan did. So we're talking about Santana. And potentially Mauer. Funny how Morneau and Nathan and Cuddyer all resigned after we had traded a Gold Glove second baseman with a .300 average, Bartlett, Garza and Santana, let Torii go, and acquired no one of consequence. I consider these idle threats esp. when Mauer's comes via Morneau's speculation.

Torii would have resigned if we'd offered him 3/$45 in the Winter of 2006 or 5/$90 at the trade deadline in 2007. Niether seemed prudent at the time and may still prove not to be so.

Morneau and Cuddyer's deals were part of buying out thier arbtiration years. That's totally different then the situation with Mauer or Johan. Morneau signed for 2 more years then he had to, but that may have had as much to do with wanting long-terms security as anything. Johan's threat wasn't idle, though I think he was gone long before the 2007 trade deadline, and the a Gold Glove second baseman with a .300 average trade was just the last straw. They needed to get an extension with him done prior to Opening Day 2007 and they screwed it up. If they'd offered him 5/$100 then, he'd still be a Twin now. It was the single-biggest screw up of Jerry Ryan's tenure.

Likewise with Mauer, they should have had his extension done before Opening Day this year. With everything that happened to him this offseason, that was virtually impossible. As such, they should be negotiating right now, and maybe they are, but there is no indication of that. In the meantime, Mauer's made it pretty darn clear that if they continue with business as usual even going into the new ballpark, he's likely to walk. I don't consider it an idle threat just because it's coming from Morneau. Mauer's never going to rip the Twins that hard, he'll just walk away. Frankly, the comments coming directly from him are stronger then I would have expected as it is.

With few exceptions (Morneau) the Twins have failed to be proactive locking up the key guys for much longer then arbitration + 1 and it's coming back to bite them. They've now managed to paint themselves into quite a corner and what they do in the next 4 days does matter. If making a move now increases the chances that Mauer and Morneau will be here in 2013 by even 10%, you have to do it. None of our prospects are likely to be HOF'ers.

[Pseudofool]

Torii would have resigned. Morneau and Nathan did. So we're talking about Santana. And potentially Mauer. Funny how Morneau and Nathan and Cuddyer all resigned after we had traded a Gold Glove second baseman with a .300 average, Bartlett, Garza and Santana, let Torii go, and acquired no one of consequence. I consider these idle threats esp. when Mauer's comes via Morneau's speculation.

Torii would have resigned if we'd offered him 3/$45 in the Winter of 2006 or 5/$90 at the trade deadline in 2007. Niether seemed prudent at the time and may still prove not to be so.

Sure, point being he didn't leave because of some perceived notion of not trying hard enough.

Morneau and Cuddyer's deals were part of buying out thier arbtiration years. That's totally different then the situation with Mauer or Johan. Morneau signed for 2 more years then he had to, but that may have had as much to do with wanting long-terms security as anything.

6 years/$80M (2008-13) 08:$7.4M, 09:$10.6M, 10:$14M, 11:$14M, 12:$14M, 13:$14M. I'm pretty Morneau would be an FA this season or next. So that's at least three years of FA. Cuddy, gave up two with the option. And you just conveniently leave Nathan out.

Johan's threat wasn't idle,.

Mauer didn't make the threat, Morneau did on his behalf. I tend to find Mauer and Santana situations pretty dissimliar; Mauer has way more incentive to stay than Santana ever had.

In the meantime, Mauer's made it pretty darn clear that if they continue with business as usual even going into the new ballpark, he's likely to walk.

That's not true. There's been two articles where Mauer isn't quoted; not even a second hand quote. Both times it's Morneau speculating. There's something to it, no doubt. But it's not at all "darn clear." And could be nothing at all.

I don't consider it an idle threat just because it's coming from Morneau. Mauer's never going to rip the Twins that hard, he'll just walk away. Frankly, the comments coming directly from him are stronger then I would have expected as it is.

Your still missing that Morneau's not even relaying anything from Mauer, he's just speculating (or he's very clever to disguise it as speculation). What is honest is frustration over the clubs nonmoves--but I doubt Mauer has given any indication to Morneau that he's thinking seriously about leaving. You can go on and get hot and bothered about it, but I'm not; not until we see something more definitive. Second hand speculation doesn't go very far with me.

With few exceptions (Morneau) the Twins have failed to be proactive locking up the key guys for much longer then arbitration + 1 and it's coming back to bite them. They've now managed to paint themselves into quite a corner and what they do in the next 4 days does matter. If making a move now increases the chances that Mauer and Morneau will be here in 2013 by even 10%, you have to do it. None of our prospects are likely to be HOF'ers.

No, they've been typically proactive whihc makes it surprising they aren't with Mauer and didn't with Santana. They signed Kuddubel and Baker, each buying some of their FA (damn cheap on the Kuddubel deal IIRC).

[notoriousgod71]

The beat goes on... we continue to NOT make any moves that could potentially put us over the top.

We needed a bonafide ace pitcher and still have glaring holes at third and second and yet we sit here. I applaud Bill Smith for acquiring Hardy, but he alone is not going to take this team to an elite level.

[VodkaDave]

The beat goes on... we continue to NOT make any moves that could potentially put us over the top.

We needed a bonafide ace pitcher and still have glaring holes at third and second and yet we sit here. I applaud Bill Smith for acquiring Hardy, but he alone is not going to take this team to an elite level.

Lets slow down a second...

First off- The Off-season isn't even close to being over. There are still plenty of good players out on the market who haven't been signed.
2nd- The Twins did trade for JJ Hardy (who sans 2008) is an all-star caliber SS who also plays great defense.
3rd- Pavano is no "ace" pitcher, but he is pretty solid and has the potential to give us 200 innings with a 3.75-4.00 ERA. Do you understand how much a true "ace" costs? If they were to sign an ace this off-season (hallady etc)
Lastly- There are no indications that the Twins are done this off-season. They have still expressed an interest to fix the 3rd/2nd problem.

[notoriousgod71]

The beat goes on... we continue to NOT make any moves that could potentially put us over the top.

We needed a bonafide ace pitcher and still have glaring holes at third and second and yet we sit here. I applaud Bill Smith for acquiring Hardy, but he alone is not going to take this team to an elite level.

Lets slow down a second...

First off- The Off-season isn't even close to being over. There are still plenty of good players out on the market who haven't been signed.
2nd- The Twins did trade for JJ Hardy (who sans 2008) is an all-star caliber SS who also plays great defense.
3rd- Pavano is no "ace" pitcher, but he is pretty solid and has the potential to give us 200 innings with a 3.75-4.00 ERA. Do you understand how much a true "ace" costs? If they were to sign an ace this off-season (hallady etc)
Lastly- There are no indications that the Twins are done this off-season. They have still expressed an interest to fix the 3rd/2nd problem.

Yes, I understand how much a true "ace" costs. Judging by Texas's contract of Harden it would have been quite doable. Sheets is still out there. We should take risks on high reward guys, not guys who if all pans out will be average.

Second, I already acknowledged that the Hardy move is a good start but he is not a difference maker.

Third, Pavano can not be counted on for anything. He makes Harden look durable.

Lastly, there are no true difference makers left on the market. Thome would be great, but none of the 3B or 2B are superstars. The best we can do is get a solid player, which is obviously nine steps above Punto and Harris. But even if we signed Thome, a real 3B, and a real 2B, we would still not be as good as the Yankees or Phillies. A lot of other people have said this, but I will echo it. We should strive to win the world series not just the division, especially with Mauer and Morneau in their primes.

[VodkaDave]

But even if we signed Thome, a real 3B, and a real 2B, we would still not be as good as the Yankees

So your advocating for the Twins to take on an additional 100-120 million in payroll?

[notoriousgod71]

But even if we signed Thome, a real 3B, and a real 2B, we would still not be as good as the Yankees

So your advocating for the Twins to take on an additional 100-120 million in payroll?

I'm advocating that for once we make a legitimate run at things. For an additional 100 million in payroll we could get five superstars. I'm saying spend some money on players that are actually sought after and will improve this team substantially and not just taking the shit from the bottom of the barrel.

[fowlergac]

I'm advocating that for once we make a legitimate run at things. For an additional 100 million in payroll we could get five superstars. I'm saying spend some money on players that are actually sought after and will improve this team substantially and not just taking the shit from the bottom of the barrel.

An additional $100 million in payroll? Please.

[twinscowboysbulls]

Wow, don't ever complain about Gardy again about wanting 12 pitchers. Says here that Ozzie prefers carrying 13!

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/n ... id=4851862

[notoriousgod71]

I'm advocating that for once we make a legitimate run at things. For an additional 100 million in payroll we could get five superstars. I'm saying spend some money on players that are actually sought after and will improve this team substantially and not just taking the shit from the bottom of the barrel.

An additional $100 million in payroll? Please.

I think you have it confused. I'm not calling for us to add 100 million. Dave was the one that asked if I was advocating adding 100 million in payroll? For 100 mill you could get five superstars. I just want one.

[Narf]

Yeah, we've never had the best pitcher in the playoffs since 1987.

i think you missed the point of jew's post. he's basically saying that while inferior teams can sometimes manage to win three best of sevens against stronger opponents, it takes a little bit of help. so while having Santana around would eliminate jew's point A, the early 2000s twins really had no answer like the '87 twins had in B, C, D. one player isn't going to close the gap between an 88 win team and a 101 win team. and if he does, you shouldn't count on him to make that difference throughout the remainder of the playoffs.

Radke was a great #2 in the playoffs for the Twins. Santana/Radke were not our problem. Starting pitching was not our problem. We used that formula and lost in the playoffs. Now the Twins have bats up and down the lineup and look like they are not done yet.

The Twins NEVER do anything to make a playoff run. Like trade a prospect for a young bat at a position of need. Or open up their wallet for a free agent or two. Clearly Billy is running the same system of pitching, defense, and light hitting that the...yeah I'll shut up now. Sarcasm aside, you guys are on crack if you think the Twins are running business as usual though.

[fowlergac]

I think you have it confused. I'm not calling for us to add 100 million. Dave was the one that asked if I was advocating adding 100 million in payroll? For 100 mill you could get five superstars. I just want one.

Good. I thought somebody slipped me some crazy pills.

From my point of view, I'm satisfied with whatever happens from this point forward as long as we get Mauer extended. We're built right now to win the division. If that works out, it might be nice to get a ringer mid-season to help us through the playoffs. That's equally as unlikely as getting a ringer FA now, but as long as we're on the subject...

[VodkaDave]

I still think the Twins are best off trading Ramos at the deadline for an ace.

[twinscowboysbulls]

I still think the Twins are best off trading Ramos at the deadline for an ace.

That's a great idea, as long as Mauer is extended.

[kab21]

I still think the Twins are best off trading Ramos at the deadline for an ace.

What kind of ace can you get for a prospect that ranks in the lower half of the top 100?

[twinscowboysbulls]

All-Star pitcher HIV 'stache type aces.....lol.

But seriously

[VodkaDave]

I still think the Twins are best off trading Ramos at the deadline for an ace.

What kind of ace can you get for a prospect that ranks in the lower half of the top 100?

Well with the way the word "ace" has been thrown around here lately I imagine they could land quite a few.

Ramos will be in the top 50 before the season, if he continues his tear through AAA for the first few months there is no reason why he wouldn't be in the top 25 range.

BTW did you see what the Mariners gave up for Cliff Lee (who also was very affordable)?

Ramos alone may not be enough, but I bet they could package him with a lesser prospect or two (no Hicks, Revere, Morales etc)

[diehardtwinsfan]

I still think the Twins are best off trading Ramos at the deadline for an ace.

What kind of ace can you get for a prospect that ranks in the lower half of the top 100?

Yeah, I think Ramos is going to be a monster in AAA this season... If they trade him, I'd hope, however, it would be for more than a 1 year rental. I'd want to fill a position of need for a period of time.

[fowlergac]

Mauer is a catcher right now, but eventually (I hope) he won't be one (or he'll be an OF/DH and backup backstop). Ramos should be ready for the big leagues around the time that move should happen. I know people want to "take a shot" right now, but we have guys like Mauer and Morneau precisely because that's not how we role. I sincerely hope we don't trade a guy like Ramos for a rental player.

[VodkaDave]

Johnny Bench caught 17 years.
Mike Piazza caught 16.
Pudge has caught 19 (and counting)
Yogi Berra caught 16+

I'm sorry but all this talk of having Mauer move positions right now or in the near future is really dumb.
In 7 or 8 years then you can talk about moving him to 1st base or DH to prolong his career, but he is in his prime and he isn't made of glass. (He was one of the top QB's in the country in H.S.)Oh yeah, he is also one of the top defensive catchers in the game as well!

If you want to DH him 30-40 games a year, I am fine with that. But a full position change now? or in the next few years? No thanks.

[lambo_asdf]

I don't know if people fathom just how valuable Mauer's production is when he plays 130 games at catcher. Also, keep in mind that a lot of those short catcher careers took place back in the day of terrible athletic conditioning. Mike Piazza was an elite hitter until age 34, and productive all the way to the bitter end at 38. Jorge Posada was an elite hitter as an everyday backstop at age 37 last year. Varitek was an elite hitter until age 33 and continued to be productive until age 35. Ivan Rodriguez was an elite hitter until age 32 and a productive one until age 36.

[snepp]

BTW did you see what the Mariners gave up for Cliff Lee (who also was very affordable)?

Bill Smith is no Jack Z.

[fowlergac]

Johnny Bench caught 17 years.
Mike Piazza caught 16.
Pudge has caught 19 (and counting)
Yogi Berra caught 16+

I'm sorry but all this talk of having Mauer move positions right now or in the near future is really dumb.
In 7 or 8 years then you can talk about moving him to 1st base or DH to prolong his career, but he is in his prime and he isn't made of glass. (He was one of the top QB's in the country in H.S.)Oh yeah, he is also one of the top defensive catchers in the game as well!

If you want to DH him 30-40 games a year, I am fine with that. But a full position change now? or in the next few years? No thanks.

I would like to see Mauer take a similar career path as Vmart and catch fewer games a year. If Ramos turns out to be an above average catcher (and it sounds like that's the path he's on), would it be that terrible to extend Mauer's career by having him play every day and catch every other day? I'm not saying he should start doing that right now, but in 3 years, when Ramos is ready and Mauer is 30, I think it would be worth consideration (assuming we extend Mauer, of course). If we dump Ramos, we won't be able afford putting Morales back there to let guys run wild. If we go with Butera, we waste a spot in the order. I know he's not made of glass, but we can't spend $25M on a guy and stick him behind the plate every day during the second half of his career.

[lambo_asdf]

Martinez doesn't catch very much because he's not a good defensive catcher. The amount of catcher that he does play says a lot about the added offensive value that playing catcher brings.

[VodkaDave]

but in 3 years, when Ramos is ready and Mauer is 30, I think it would be worth consideration (assuming we extend Mauer, of course). If we dump Ramos, we won't be able afford putting Morales back there to let guys run wild. If we go with Butera, we waste a spot in the order. I know he's not made of glass, but we can't spend $25M on a guy and stick him behind the plate every day during the second half of his career.

Ramos will be ready for the majors in 1 year, not 3 years. mauer will also only be 29 in 3 years (still in his prime)

If in 7 or 8 years we need to start playing mauer somewhere else I am sure the Twins can find a better option to catch then Butera at that time.
Besides, at this point why should the Twins care how Mauer is going to preform when he is 36.37 or 38? When this contract will end when he is 33, or 34?

[twinscowboysbulls]

In 2 years if we still have Mauer, and Ramos has developed and we still have him. It wouldn't be a bad thing to Let them split time behind the plate while Mauer DH'ed regularly, since Kuddubel will likely not be a Twin in two years? If he has another good year I have a feeling we will have a hard time resigning him...
All this is based off of Ramos developing into a good hitter/catcher.

[DPJ]

In 2 years if we still have Mauer, and Ramos has developed and we still have him. It wouldn't be a bad thing to Let them split time behind the plate while Mauer DH'ed regularly, since Kuddubel will likely not be a Twin in two years? If he has another good year I have a feeling we will have a hard time resigning him...
All this is based off of Ramos developing into a good hitter/catcher.

First it serves Ramos no good for his progression to split time at the major league level. Either he's the Twins starting catcher or trade him elsewhere. Sitting on the bench is just a waste of a guy for a guy who profiles as an above average catcher. Second I don't see the market for Kuddubel being too strong. Look at Mastui, Damon, Thome, Vlad, Dye and other no glove all bat players. It's not like they're breaking the bank in this current market.

[Pseudofool]

In 2 years if we still have Mauer, and Ramos has developed and we still have him. It wouldn't be a bad thing to Let them split time behind the plate while Mauer DH'ed regularly, since Kuddubel will likely not be a Twin in two years? If he has another good year I have a feeling we will have a hard time resigning him...
All this is based off of Ramos developing into a good hitter/catcher.

First it serves Ramos no good for his progression to split time at the major league level. Either he's the Twins starting catcher or trade him elsewhere. Sitting on the bench is just a waste of a guy for a guy who profiles as an above average catcher. Second I don't see the market for Kuddubel being too strong. Look at Mastui, Damon, Thome, Vlad, Dye and other no glove all bat players. It's not like they're breaking the bank in this current market.

Those guys are like ten years older than Kuddubel, DPJ. Come on.

[DPJ]

First it serves Ramos no good for his progression to split time at the major league level. Either he's the Twins starting catcher or trade him elsewhere. Sitting on the bench is just a waste of a guy for a guy who profiles as an above average catcher. Second I don't see the market for Kuddubel being too strong. Look at Mastui, Damon, Thome, Vlad, Dye and other no glove all bat players. It's not like they're breaking the bank in this current market.

Those guys are like ten years older than Kuddubel, DPJ. Come on.

I know, but there's a premium getting put back into defense around the league. Guys who's value lies only in their bats just aren't getting paid huge money (Jason Bay excluded) Atleast not to the point where he'll price himself outta the Twins range.

[twinscowboysbulls]

First it serves Ramos no good for his progression to split time at the major league level. Either he's the Twins starting catcher or trade him elsewhere. Sitting on the bench is just a waste of a guy for a guy who profiles as an above average catcher. Second I don't see the market for Kuddubel being too strong. Look at Mastui, Damon, Thome, Vlad, Dye and other no glove all bat players. It's not like they're breaking the bank in this current market.

Those guys are like ten years older than Kuddubel, DPJ. Come on.

I know, but there's a premium getting put back into defense around the league. Guys who's value lies only in their bats just aren't getting paid huge money (Jason Bay excluded) Atleast not to the point where he'll price himself outta the Twins range.

You do realize at that point in time we might have Mauer/Morneau/Cuddyer/Nathan all under large contracts?

[kab21]

You do realize at that point in time we might have Mauer/Morneau/Cuddyer/Nathan all under large contracts?

Cuddyer's contract is finished at the same time as Kuddubel's. And Nathan has an option that year and is done the next. I think the Twins will try hard to keep one of Kuddubel or Cuddyer at DH but not both.

[notoriousgod71]

What a difference a couple weeks make! Now we have added Thome and Hudson so it at least shows we want to improve our team. I think this team is just an ace away from being a legitimate World Series contender.

I have to give kudos to Billy Smith for making some moves to bolster the roster. Good job!